Camp Fires

[betsytom]

something has to be done with the policy of the beloved campsite fire. If not on a permanent basis then certainly during busy periods.

I don't know exactly how I would write the policy but the changes I would consider would include; multiple 'central' fires instead of individual campsite ones - fire/non fire sectons - complete ban.

This past weekend was an eye opener for us with the most choking air we have ever experienced being at Big Meadows National Campground in Virginia-Skyline Drive-the entire area was blanketed in an eye watering, throat irritating, particulate filled haze from late pm until very early am; impossible to describe and astounding in its density.

Since the park had no electrical hookups and 'quiet' time for generator operation (don't you love that term?) was from 7:00 pm to 8:00 am using the ac was not an option-it really was quite an evening.

Some of the problem, if not alot of the problem, was that a large group of people really don't know how to build a proper fire AND the solution may be as simple as providing dry wood or wood more suitable to cleaner/hotter burning.

But whatever the solution I am afraid that changes have to be made and really we are astounded that a policy already is not in place.

[whodo]

Camp Fires in Camp grounds, Good? Bad? Need to be limited? What's your opinion?



(Thank you Betystom for bringing this topic up. I moved your post over here.)

[bugs53]

I love a good campfire. I love to drink. TOO much of either thing is bad.

I agree, where are the responsible persons, who are supposed to be in charge when when these violations of camping (good Judgement) occur?

[r1hood]

My wife and I have been camping for over 30 years. Now retired, we are having to severely restrict (or quit) camping due to severe allergies to smoke. I have been searching for a list of campgrounds or RV parks that do not allow campfires in the Southeast. Has anyone seen such a listing?

[murffdog]

This past weekend we were at an overbooked CG and yes, parties and campfires were everywhere along with the CG's community fire. Unless the CG has a policy, there is not a way to enforce it. One couple set up a pop-up right outside my bedroom window. They piled firewood about 3' from us and I straight up asked him where he thought he was going to build a fire and where was the smoke going to go. I didn't have to say anything else because he realized the problem. They made a small fire on the opposite side of his camper which was ok.

[jimbo]

Myself personally I would have to avoid cg's that do not allow camp fires. I do a majority of my cooking over an open fire. And what I do not cook on a open fire I do on charcoal grill. I do understand your issues and health concerns. If my fire was bothering someone I would tone it down or try to accomadate them. If there was a lot of black smoke they were probably burning garbage or contaminated wood. On another note did you ask them to tone it down because if you didn't they had no way of knowing it bothered you. I have never heard of any cg's not allowing fires and believe that one would not be able to survive with out them for they are a large part of the overall camping experience. Maybe down if Fla. there may be some rv parks (not cg's) that may not allow them. But when I and most other people think about camping we think of sitting around the campfire and chatting with our freinds and relatives we camp with.:confused:

[betsytom]

I agree that the fire is part of the camping experience and would only discuss the issue under situations similar to what murffdog experienced as we feel that the minority should not be able to dictate policy to the majority.

However we also feel that under some situations policy should be examined; the suggestions we would like to have the NPS consider are the following:

Under-certain- situations, stagnant air mass/full campgrounds that perhaps individual site fires should be disallowed in favor of a central fire, or multiple area fires. Again, we acknowledge, and agree, that the activity of socializing around an open fire is a fundamental part of camping.

Another suggestion would be to replace the basic rings with the type that we bought at the Hershey Show three years ago. This fire ring has a raised grate with air inlet holes below the grate and the type/quality of fire obtained in this ring is very clean and enjoyable-it also has laser cut designs around the ring.

It appeared to us that the problem was caused by both green wood and bad fire building and I would like to see the wording of the NPS contract language for its wood vendors, perhaps the solution to the problem is as simple as requiring very dry wood and a species suitable to quick/clean burning?, though one would hope that this is already a mandate.

We have learned one fact that is amazing to us, the NPS allows wood to be brought in by campers; incredible. And I will acknowledge that the smoke could have been generated by people who brought in their own firewood as one of the administrators of the Park had suggested; however if this was the cause then the vast majority of sites were burning self supplied wood as 99% of the fires were heavy smokers.

r1hood, we have never seen a list but we did stay at one campground in PA that had a no fire policy, the reason given, to protect the quality of life for the neighbors-kind of classy I thought. I can relate to your situation though, we are healthy (as far as we know) and it was not pleasant to be in this campground.

I really am curious as to the lasting effects to infants/kids of incredibly heavy campfire smoke-I can still smell smoke in our rv, and it has been open since Monday...

Again, we are not campaigning for a ban as both of us really enjoy the campfire-but after seeing what we saw its apparent that the subject needs review.

[lindah]

Betsy, you've made some very good points and it would be nice if something could be done about the situation you described in your first post.

We are not campfire people...oh, we may sit around a campfire that someone else has built, but we don't carry wood with us nor will be go to the trouble of building our own campfire. So, although we're not opposed to campfires, I AM opposed to one if the smoke is coming in our window! We've been in someplaces where I swear the people must have been burning old railroad ties or other wood that has been soaked in preservatives. *Regular* campfire smoke is bad enough if you have to breath it in, but that stuff really STINKS!

[murffdog]

We were at a campground last week that we frequent often and it is owned by Morgan RV Resorts. In their "new" rules, you cannot bring in your own wood but you can buy it from them. They say some bring in bad wood, (beetles) pressure treated, or as lindah said, railroad ties. I do understand this but I know my wood is clean and I do have the capacity to carry my own and I do.

[donnie]

While we like to enjoy a campfire, a lot of the campgrounds have restricted them due to the concerns with the drought.
What gets me is the idiots that get up in the moring, make a fire and then pack up and leave their site with the fire either still going or leave it somewhat smouldering.
When I used to tent camp, Id help the rangers out and make sure the fires didnt create any problems for them by going to the smouldering vacant sites and making sure the the fires were safe.

[utmtman]

Most all your national parks and national forests require fires in designated fired pits only. Most places I have been over the past many years have had built in cement fire pits and they were the only places allowed for fires. And I have noticed a lot of state parks are going the same route. I just went camping in the mountains of Utah in a non fee non designated campground in a national forest and even there they had cement fire pits in the camps, surprised me.

[jimbo]

Most if not all state parks are going to the raised concrete fire pits. It is a liability issue they first started putting them in the handicapped sites in the Mi. state parks and now they are on most sites and are replacing the old style as fast as the rangers in the parks can make them. At least in a couple of the parked we used to frequent the rangers were making them on their own. They are safer in most cases it keeps from having accidents by people falling into the pits. The initial idea was they raised the fire to make it easier for handicapped campers. Also it is much more difficult for campers to move the pits than the old fire rings. They also last much longer too.
I didn't like them at first because they were hard to cook on with my portable grate but I have since adapted it to them so it would work. Now the only draw back I see with them is it is hard to warm your toes an those damp cold mornings lol. Also they do not seem to get as good of a draft and sometimes when you have damp wood it doesn't seem to burn as well and tend to smolder more than the more open type pits.

[betsytom]

We took a long weekend and had a fire going every night, as did every other occupied site in the park BUT the wood was of very good quality and the campground was just less than half full, 30 sites total I believe. The combination of not many fires and dry wood was just the ticket for the a very pleasant experience-quite in contrast to the National Park on Memorial Day weekend when it was unpleasant to even take a breath.

We've done some experimenting here at home where we have a Fire Smith ring, bought it at the Hershey Show in Pa,
http://www.thefiresmith.com

after watching how well it burned both our green and just delivered kiln dried cordwood, yeah, I know, kiln dried fire wood :D -$250/cord delivered, I think the key to keeping the camgrounds safe- if central fires are not going to be mandated (during high occupancy times)-is going to a raised grate type of ring like the above.

[jimbo]

Man over 250.00 cord they saw you coming my cg charges 30.00 a cord for mixed wood or slab wood. Then 40.00 a cord for split oak. All delevered to your site. They give us a deal on it cause they don't allow outside wood. Most of the state park wood venders sell wood here by the bundle and charge anywhere from 3.00 - 5.00 the quality does vary by the cg. Also we see people taking advantage of campers near cg's here selling small bundles of fire wood on the road side from 3.00-10.00 each. Most sell slab wood they purchase from the sawmills here for about 180.00 for 4-5 cords delivered then you just cut to length. Most of the slab wood is mixed soft wood consisting of birch,poplar and other soft woods. Most of the sawmills here supply pallet mills. I usually burn quite well and makes a hot fire and burns fast and clean. Most of the reputable hard wood dealers sell mostly split oak and maple seasoned for a year or more and it burns slow hot and gives you good coals for cooking. I keep two piles in my seasonal site with two wood racks one for slab wood for when we want a hot fire on cool days with a good flame and hardwood for cooking when I want nice coal bed for the dutch oven or just cooking over the open fire. The only time I have had problems with smoke in our cg is in the spring when people are inconsiderate and burn the leaves from their sites some even burn in the road showing how ignorant some people are. There will always be rookie campers and inconsiderate people no matter where you camp. The rookies I try to help by offering them kindling and dry wood but the ignorant few I try to just ignore or report them to the cg management if they are causing hazardous conditions.